Curse

C R A F T · Jul 02, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

New to playing a sin.

That said, is there a "priority" list of skills to obtain?

I'm just starting and the skills available to me through the trainer are getting me killed too often. What skills should I start with, which should I stay away from, and which can be upgraded?

Any hints or links would help.

miskav · Jul 02, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

What I can recall from when I used to play it; Keen arrow, Distracting shot, Barrage (duh lol) Critical eye, that assasin pve skill (Sunspear) And for the rest I have no idea at the moment >> Sorry for that.

Super Igor · Jul 02, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Err Barrage + Ebsoh on r10 ebon vanguard is so aweasome.

TheDragonmaster · Jul 02, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

May I suggest you take a look at this?

TheDragonmaster · Jul 02, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

My recommendation, after taking a second look, is to drop the Shadow Arts and Shadow Refuge, change Critical Strikes to 12+1+1, and go with one of the variants for the last skill slot (I suggest either Ebon Battle Standard of Honor or Sharpen Daggers for more AoE offence, Keen Arrow for spike damage, or Assassins Remedy if you believe you will encounter foes that blind you).

TheDragonmaster · Jul 02, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Oh, and don't trust them for weapons... use a recurve bow, that way every attack you make will be a barrage (thanks to the attack speed of the recurve bow)...

Unreal Havoc · Jul 02, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDragonmaster

Oh, and don't trust them for weapons... use a recurve bow, that way every attack you make will be a barrage (thanks to the attack speed of the recurve bow)...

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bow

Flatbow with Favorable Winds is actually much better for Barragers due to a quicker refire rate.

Dervaholic · Jul 02, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

i have played crit barrage in Fort Aspenwood alot you can be nearly invincible if you use
Atributes 12 markmanship 10+3 Critical strikes 8 shadow arts
Barrage,distractiong shot, savage shot, critical eye, way of the master,way of perfection, critical defenses

and a zealous 15^while enchanted recurve bow of fortitude (much better then flatbow contrary to popular belief)

The Meth · Jul 02, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bow

Flatbow with Favorable Winds is actually much better for Barragers due to a quicker refire rate.

Its not much better, because of the recharge on barrage the max rate of barrages is about once every 2.3 seconds (someone go ahead and correct me on that number if I am off slightly). Since Flatbows attack once every 2 seconds, you can do one of three things. A. Mash Barrage constantly, interrupting the normal attack every time to do a barrage, which is a pain in the ass. B. Use barrage normally and you will end up doing some normal attacks instead of barrages, lowering DPS. C. Use a recurve or longbow, getting 100% barrages naturally. Take a flatbow if you wish, but its definitely not 'much better' dps for a barrager, its just a few %.

Favorable winds is kind of a pain anyway, casting it takes up like 1/3rd of the battle. That lowers DPS quite a lot. It makes your build look more impressive and all, but in the end hurts as much as it helps.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 02, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Its not much better, because of the recharge on barrage the max rate of barrages is about once every 2.3 seconds (someone go ahead and correct me on that number if I am off slightly). Since Flatbows attack once every 2 seconds, you can do one of three things. A. Mash Barrage constantly, interrupting the normal attack every time to do a barrage, which is a pain in the ass. B. Use barrage normally and you will end up doing some normal attacks instead of barrages, lowering DPS. C. Use a recurve or longbow, getting 100% barrages naturally. Take a flatbow if you wish, but its definitely not 'much better' dps for a barrager, its just a few %.

Favorable winds is kind of a pain anyway, casting it takes up like 1/3rd of the battle. That lowers DPS quite a lot. It makes your build look more impressive and all, but in the end hurts as much as it helps.

The few percent DPS make all the difference. As for not using Favorable Winds, it not only decreases flight time but also arc aswell basically giving you pretty much the attack speed of a shortbow coupled with the range of a longbow along with your quicker refire rate. Recharge of Barrage matters little. Any good Barrager worth his salt uses a Flatbow in a B/P team, and with good reason.

DDL · Jul 02, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Plus let's be honest: if you cast a spirit like favourable winds WHILE IN BATTLE, you're pretty much doing it wrong.

I'm assuming this is PvE (since there are rarely enough actual enemy players bunched up to make barrage super useful in PvP), in which case battles almost always happen at your own instigation: start casting fav winds, then begin the assault just as it's finishing, whereupon you can rain down criticals like nobodies business for no actual battletime loss.

faraaz · Jul 02, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

If you want a Crit Barrager for PvE use, use this:

[build;OwJikxjMtIq/UDuYgrNTKTCAAA]

Optional slot for antidote signet, rez sig or w/e else you want. Does oodles of damage.

The Meth · Jul 03, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

The few percent DPS make all the difference. As for not using Favorable Winds, it not only decreases flight time but also arc aswell basically giving you pretty much the attack speed of a shortbow coupled with the range of a longbow along with your quicker refire rate. Recharge of Barrage matters little. Any good Barrager worth his salt uses a Flatbow in a B/P team, and with good reason.

If you are reading what I posted, the recharge of barrage means _everything_. By using barrage you either cut the IAS difference between flatbow and recurve by 75% (best case, if you aren't hammering barrage like a madman constantly the IAS difference is even lower), or you end up getting weaker normal attacks in between barrages. You can hardly quote people using barrage in B/P teams as proof for such a thing, barrage groups are in general weak, underpowered and run by people with no idea of what they are doing.
I just tested against master of damage, 15 Barrages with a flatbow took 34 seconds, with a recurve 35 seconds. For comparison, a flatbow not limited by barrage's recharge rate takes 29 seconds to get off 15 shots. This was with my spamming barrage as fast as possible, in a normal environment you won't be able to hit barrage the microsecond its finished and the gap will close even more. If you think that <3% speed increase is worth taking nearly a third of the battle time to put down a spirit, go ahead. Now if in a full B/P team, the damage of FW given to an entire group makes up for the short delay to a single character, but thats not what we were discussing. In any case every good B/P team is going to be using Splinter Weapon, whose damage is 100x greater then bow damage and makes the damage increase from FW meaningless in comparison anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDL

Plus let's be honest: if you cast a spirit like favourable winds WHILE IN BATTLE, you're pretty much doing it wrong.

I'm assuming this is PvE (since there are rarely enough actual enemy players bunched up to make barrage super useful in PvP), in which case battles almost always happen at your own instigation: start casting fav winds, then begin the assault just as it's finishing, whereupon you can rain down criticals like nobodies business for no actual battletime loss.

Either way, you lose 5 seconds. If you take 5 seconds in your group to cast FW, then in my group I will have already killed 1 or 2 enemies before you let loose your first area. Therefore my group will be killing faster then you. As I said before, yeah you get slightly bigger numbers, but your group is slower with you laying spirits down constantly.

rick1027 · Jul 03, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

If you want a Crit Barrager for PvE use, use this:

[build;OwJikxjMtIq/UDuYgrNTKTCAAA]

Optional slot for antidote signet, rez sig or w/e else you want. Does oodles of damage.

id try to put an interupt in there somewhere

Unreal Havoc · Jul 03, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

If you are reading what I posted, the recharge of barrage means _everything_. By using barrage you either cut the IAS difference between flatbow and recurve by 75% (best case, if you aren't hammering barrage like a madman constantly the IAS difference is even lower), or you end up getting weaker normal attacks in between barrages. You can hardly quote people using barrage in B/P teams as proof for such a thing, barrage groups are in general weak, underpowered and run by people with no idea of what they are doing.

The fact that you can attack at longer ranges with a Flatbow when using a Spirit, with a quicker refire rate, lessened arc, and flight time, is what you are not getting. The recharge time of Barrage does NOT matter when you take all this into equasion. It takes more than one skill to make a build.

Quote:

I just tested against master of damage, 15 Barrages with a flatbow took 34 seconds, with a recurve 35 seconds.

Thankyou for proving to yourself that a Flatbow is faster for Barraging.

Quote:

For comparison, a flatbow not limited by barrage's recharge rate takes 29 seconds to get off 15 shots. This was with my spamming barrage as fast as possible, in a normal environment you won't be able to hit barrage the microsecond its finished and the gap will close even more. If you think that <3% speed increase is worth taking nearly a third of the battle time to put down a spirit, go ahead. Now if in a full B/P team, the damage of FW given to an entire group makes up for the short delay to a single character, but thats not what we were discussing. In any case every good B/P team is going to be using Splinter Weapon, whose damage is 100x greater then bow damage and makes the damage increase from FW meaningless in comparison anyway.

Do you even know why you take Favorable Winds in a Barrage team? Do you think it's all because of that little bit of extra damage? No. To reduce flight arc and time. Why are you using a spirit mid-battle? Lay it out of battle when the rest of your team is preparing, tank is soaking up aggro, etc. If all you do is just rush into battle regardless of anything else the rest of your team is doing that says alot.

Quote:

Either way, you lose 5 seconds. If you take 5 seconds in your group to cast FW, then in my group I will have already killed 1 or 2 enemies before you let loose your first area. Therefore my group will be killing faster then you. As I said before, yeah you get slightly bigger numbers, but your group is slower with you laying spirits down constantly.

Yet every GOOD Barrage/Pet team uses spirits for a reason. To maximize the effect of the amount of AoE damage they're doing. Without one you may aswell throw the arrows at your target for all the good it will do, especially as a Critical Barrager. If you find it so hard to cast spirits at the RIGHT time then bring a Ritualist to move your spirits around for you.

The Meth · Jul 03, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

The fact that you can attack at longer ranges with a Flatbow when using a Spirit, with a quicker refire rate, lessened arc, and flight time, is what you are not getting. The recharge time of Barrage does NOT matter when you take all this into equasion. It takes more than one skill to make a build.

Lets see... longer range? OK, that matters for 1/2 of a second or is taken away by a bow switch. Quicker refire rate? Nope, just disproved that. Lessened arc and flight time? Again, recurve already won that. The recharge of barrage TOTALLY matters, if you weren't using barrage your pro-flatbow position would be correct, but when using barrage the DPS advantage goes away. Unless you are mashing your barrage like a trained monkey you can actually get LESS DPS with a flatbow then a recurve, because unless you hit barrage within about .3 seconds of it recharging every single time you end up putting out normal attacks instead of barrages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Do you even know why you take Favorable Winds in a Barrage team? Do you think it's all because of that little bit of extra damage? No. To reduce flight arc and time. Why are you using a spirit mid-battle? Lay it out of battle when the rest of your team is preparing, tank is soaking up aggro, etc. If all you do is just rush into battle regardless of anything else the rest of your team is doing that says alot.

Once again, you waste 5 seconds doing what recurves do for free. Wasting 5 second out of battle is wasting 5 seconds. A recurve team is therefore faster then yours because they win the battle 5 seconds earlier. If you need to 'prepare' before each battle get a better team. Maybe your monks should stop being healing breeze spammers and your rangers should stop using mending. -10 points for even mentioning tanks. lulz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Yet every GOOD Barrage/Pet team uses spirits for a reason. To maximize the effect of the amount of AoE damage they're doing. Without one you may aswell throw the arrows at your target for all the good it will do, especially as a Critical Barrager. If you find it so hard to cast spirits at the RIGHT time then bring a Ritualist to move your spirits around for you

Again, as I said if you are using spirits for damage you seriously need to check out [Splinter Weapon] and/or [Great Dwarf Weapon]. Those skills are 100x better then every spirit in the game combined. Just for laughs though, lets look again at these two statements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Do you even know why you take Favorable Winds in a Barrage team? Do you think it's all because of that little bit of extra damage? No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Yet every GOOD Barrage/Pet team uses spirits for a reason. To maximize the effect of the amount of AoE damage they're doing. Without one you may aswell throw the arrows at your target for all the good it will do, especially as a Critical Barrager.

Clearly you live in an alternate dimension where FW can both add no damage and be responsible for all of your damage. Or maybe you just need to think before you post. I'll let you decide that.

You seem to be stuck on this whole 'barrage team' concept btw. Noone was even talking about a barrage team before you started. We are discussing pure builds here. I admitted FW would have its place in a barrage TEAM, but nowhere else have we even been talking about a team. In any other group the damage increase from FW is negated by the fact that you spent a third of the battle laying down a wimpy buff just so your bow doesn't suck.

In any case this is becoming fruitless. I have explained why a flatbow has no advantage over a recurve, only disadvantages. If some incompetent noobs want to disbelieve me, go ahead. The OP has gotten everything he needed from this thread by now so there is no purpose to it.

DDL · Jul 03, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I have to say...if you're this anti-spirit ("OMG LOOK AT THE VITAL LOSS OF 5 SECONDS EVERY TIME"), have you ever played as a ritualist?

Or even had a ritualist in your party?

Did you spend the whole time complaining?

Seriously, if you want to just barge into every battle with no hesitation, you're perfectly entitled to do so, but...it's not a good idea.

Taking the time to prepare, even if it takes an extra 5 seconds (!!!!) can make the difference between a battle you win in seconds and a battle that stretches on for a minute or more.

Overall, those 5 seconds will usually be well spent.

And if you're good enough to not ever need to prepare for a battle, then why the hell do you need to argue over anything?

Mr. Undisclosed · Jul 03, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Again, as I said if you are using spirits for damage you seriously need to check out [Splinter Weapon] and/or [Great Dwarf Weapon]. Those skills are 100x better then every spirit in the game combined. Just for laughs though, lets look again at these two statements.

Tbh splinter really isn't worth bringing on the ranger itself.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 03, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Lets see... longer range? OK, that matters for 1/2 of a second or is taken away by a bow switch. Quicker refire rate? Nope, just disproved that. Lessened arc and flight time? Again, recurve already won that. The recharge of barrage TOTALLY matters, if you weren't using barrage your pro-flatbow position would be correct, but when using barrage the DPS advantage goes away. Unless you are mashing your barrage like a trained monkey you can actually get LESS DPS with a flatbow then a recurve, because unless you hit barrage within about .3 seconds of it recharging every single time you end up putting out normal attacks instead of barrages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth also said

I just tested against master of damage, 15 Barrages with a flatbow took 34 seconds, with a recurve 35 seconds.

Anyone else see the irony here?

Quote:

Once again, you waste 5 seconds doing what recurves do for free. Wasting 5 second out of battle is wasting 5 seconds. A recurve team is therefore faster then yours because they win the battle 5 seconds earlier. If you need to 'prepare' before each battle get a better team. Maybe your monks should stop being healing breeze spammers and your rangers should stop using mending. -10 points for even mentioning tanks. lulz.

I don't think laying down a party wide buff that increases flight time, accuracy, and lessens arrow arc, is useless to be honest. Throw a Flatbow on top and you have a weapon that has pretty much the range of a Longbow, the speed of a Shortbow and pretty damn high accuracy. I'd rather sit at a nice range laying Barrages into a mob than right on top of them.

Also as for Tanks considering, as you said, that the discussion is towards outside of a Barrage/Pet team how else do you intend to hold aggro to lay down Barrage into clumped foes? No aggro control means you shouldn't bother with barrage, better off with MS/DB instead in my opinion. In an organised team you will take some sort of aggro control, be it minions, pets, or a party tank. If not and you're just letting the enemy run amok around you, why the hell are you even running Barrage on your Assassin?

Also if you're not hitting Barrage every hit because of this reason then by your previous statements a Flatbow actually is indeed better, especially coupled with [Critical Agility].

Quote:

Again, as I said if you are using spirits for damage you seriously need to check out [Splinter Weapon] and/or [Great Dwarf Weapon]. Those skills are 100x better then every spirit in the game combined. Just for laughs though, lets look again at these two statements.

Do I need to point out that neither of these can be equipped by an Assassin to be useful for an Assassin?

Quote:

Clearly you live in an alternate dimension where FW can both add no damage and be responsible for all of your damage. Or maybe you just need to think before you post. I'll let you decide that.

No you just need to read a little better and understand FULLY what other people say to you. Kind of ironic that you tell me to think before I post here don't you think?

Quote:

You seem to be stuck on this whole 'barrage team' concept btw. Noone was even talking about a barrage team before you started. We are discussing pure builds here. I admitted FW would have its place in a barrage TEAM, but nowhere else have we even been talking about a team. In any other group the damage increase from FW is negated by the fact that you spent a third of the battle laying down a wimpy buff just so your bow doesn't suck.

And you're taking a Critical Barrager outside of a Barrage/Pet team because? Much much better options available that can be more useful to a party and actually kill stuff. Covered this already above so I won't go into more detail here.

Quote:

In any case this is becoming fruitless. I have explained why a flatbow has no advantage over a recurve, only disadvantages. If some incompetent noobs want to disbelieve me, go ahead. The OP has gotten everything he needed from this thread by now so there is no purpose to it.

Insulting people does nothing other than to make you look like an arrogant and egotistical jerk. To think you're being so aggressive over differing opinions on a weapon choice in a videogame? -10 points for that. If you want to have a civil discussion, feel free to, if you're just going to act as above, then my conversation with you is... terminated!

Franco Power · Jul 03, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

You guys are a bunch of nerds, you know that right?

I mean, do you read what you posting or do you just click refresh every time and when you see a reply you immediatly write something and rush to click the post button ?

On a side note,

[skill]Barrage[/skill][skill]Way of the Master[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill][skill]Critical eye[/skill][skill]Critical Agility[/skill]

This is all you'll ever need.